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About Trevor

I have lived in Costa Rica for 14 years and have been active in real estate development over that period and construction in general. I am a qualified Journeyman carpenter and cabinetmaker from Canada. My current focus project is building custom green homes and housing packages all built out of Magnesium Oxide SIPs.

Comments

Eliminating Steel from a Home’s Structure — 4 Comments

  1. The price per square meter on second story concrete floor seems high at $10,000 for 100m2. Using a product from Metalco, can space beams 1.5 M per their engineering, comes in 10M lengths. So once floor structure is in place it is only a day or two of prep, if plumbing and electrical go in the pour, less if not. And then a day to pour the floor. Cost of materials is around $2500 including decking, concrete, rebar, etc. Labor maybe $1000? That is well under $50 a square, right? Just wondering how you got to the 85-110 price.

    Thanks

    • Adam,
      This answer is going to be much longer and more detailed than your question but I hope it demonstrates how and why I come up with my recommendations in the fist place.

      First off when I quote prices of anything I do not do it lightly especially since I use these same numbers to make decisions in my own business. I do not provide information to entertain you or anyone for that matter what goes in this book is exactly what I use in the real world. It most certainly is not theory. Specifically the sources those numbers come from are three people, my personal experiences, my friend Mario who runs his own traditional Costarican construction company as well as our architect Oscar Villavicencio who we have worked with for 13 years now. The combined experience is a mere 60+ years so I hope that you can appreciate that we possibly may know something and are not just winging it. Mario specifically costs his jobs at $85 a m2. Oscar uses $110. Both are current rates. The last time I built a floor in this method is a while back so I went to them to confirm current costs. I do know when I did this that these floors are not cheap at all when I used Ekstrom’s concrete beam and styrofoam block flooring system. Nor do they offer very long spans. Once you elevate any slab the price doubles to triples in costs.

      Your numbers are quite incomplete or wild estimates Eg. $1,800 for concrete alone plus pumper truck fees. Then add to that all the steel rebar & mesh required. Now add in the cost for all the beams needed plus some kind of decking system. The Q deck alone you suggest would cost $1,500 it is hardly a miscellaneous line item. Also add all the teleposts that have to be rented to support this floor for 3 to 4 weeks, plus vibrator and power trowel. Those same posts are one and the same that also prevent any work being done below them for that same stretch. Then add in the cost of all the form work to make the perimeter and intermediate beams. Then all of us confirm this would take a crew 2 weeks + minimum to build the floor and all the support structure. The actual pour is less than 10% of the required labour. $1,000 of labour, that most certainly is not going to cut it! My crew costs would run in the $4,200 to $5,000 for that job assuming of course I would ever even contemplate pissing away our valuable time on a create work project. IT IS NOT a simple matter of slapping down Q deck and dumping 30 tones of concrete on top of it. This takes a serious structural system to support all of this = $$$$ Electrical and mechanical runs being done are not exactly optional assuming your home actually needs lights and toilets so this must be included and then pray like hell no one forgets anything. IF they do then that is one ugly situation to fix in solid concrete. So we are up to $8,300 now with a whole lot more to add in yet with steel, forming and rentals to add in. Plus aside from this there is one thing that totally baffles me when an entire industry ignores the existence of job carrying costs. The owner has to pay this so it has to be included in the assessment of total construction costs as well as what various systems actually cost in the end. In this example the time taken to build this floor alone I would start with a hole in the ground and be on the roof of a two story home in the same time this slow build floor would take alone and then when done I am not sitting round twiddling my thumbs waiting for concrete to cure.

      Now lets get into the deeper crux of this discussion. The costs is but a small part of an intelligent and well informed decision on the part of the home owner. I categorically state this type of floor just simply sucks on a long term livability and quality basis. Wood floor structures are way kinder on the human body as they offer a cushion not noticeable to the conscious but most noticeable by your physiology. They are easy to remodel and easy to make corrections on. They build way faster, like about 10 times faster. They are way quieter as compared to concrete on Q deck such as you suggest are horribly noisy for the residents. Just sit below a floor with a women walking in high heels over your head and then tell me such makes a quiet floor. Wood flexes in an earthquake rather than fractures as concrete does nor would it turn you into a pancake if it did fall. Then lets not forget that wood consumes 1 ton of CO2 for every cubic meter of wood grown on the plantation versus cement that contributes 800kg of CO2 per ton of portland cement. One consuming versus one contributing so there is a vast difference in the green quality of these two types of construction materials. There is some idiots (engineers and architects included) that suggest concrete construction is green when fact demonstrates that this is far from anything that could remotely be considered truthful.

      This entire book exists to help consumers make much better decisions when surrounded by an entire industry that lives in a delusion as well as to demonstrate how to build efficiently and with a green conscience if it were not it most certainly would not exist and it most certainly would mean that I would not have invested hundreds of hours in writing it and updating it or in answering reader’s questions.

      Trevor

    • Adam,
      Now with the pictures of your project in hand I see that we are actually comparing a dumptruck to a ferrari. I specifically stated in my post “second story of a home” but you are comparing a slightly elevated slab with ground level access designed for a steeply sloped lot. This is in no way similar need, in methods, time requirements or amount of materials needed. Elevating a floor 9 ft above ground level where the concrete must come from is totally different and way more expensive hence the prices I quoted are indeed accurate and valid whereas your comparison is totally irrelevant nonsense. Also ignoring the cost of the environmentally offensive steel structure supporting your concrete floor is not at all appropriate nor a relevant comparison. You have to compare all components when comparing one system to another to come up with anything that resembles a valid answer. Just selectively forgetting critical parts does not serve a higher purpose. In fact our glu-lams would still beat the falsely lowered price that you have suggested. Meanwhile our structure provides a much friendlier floor for the owner to live upon for years to come. Not to mention a far greener solution than the old standards of concrete and steel. “If all you have is a hammer then everything is a nail.” That is what such methods remind me of versus those of us who try to think up better solutions to old problems and challenges.

      Trevor

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